Episode Summary: Just so you know? There's a LOT of change going down in the…
Want some tips and tricks for Facebook Ads success from someone in the trenches running them every day?
Well, you’re in luck because that is exactly what I’m going to give you!
Cat Skreiner is a self-confessed tech nerd who – after 20 years in the marketing space working for some of the biggest brands around – now focuses on Facebook Ads strategy and digital analytics.
In other words, she knows her shiz when it comes to running killer Facebook ads.
So, I decided to get the DL on Facebook Ads from someone in the know.
AKA? From Cat!
Thinking of diving into Facebook ads yourself?
This episode is a must-listen.
PS If you want to banish the blinking cursor, I also have a very cool resource for you. Click below to get your hands on my FREE Facebook Ad Copy Cheatsheet.
If you enjoyed this episode and the Stevie Says Social podcast generally, I have a favour. Please take two minutes to subscribe, and to write a rating and a review. You can do that on Apple Podcasts right now by clicking here. If you are an Android user, you can follow the podcast on Spotify here. Those actions will help the podcast reach more people, and I would be truly grateful. Thank you so much.
STEVIE: In this episode, I’m talking to Cat from Seeking Digital all about her Top Tips and Tricks for Facebook Ads success. Trust me; you are not going to want to miss this episode.
STEVIE: Hey guys, and welcome to Episode 74 of The Stevie Says Social Podcast. Now if you listen to last week’s episode, awesome. If you didn’t, you should definitely head back and listen to it starts. I started a little bit of a series on Facebook ads. Now I love hot eyes for Facebook ads, I absolutely see the power of them. And I think they’re amazing. But I also know how difficult and overwhelming it can be for people who are diving in for the first time. Hopefully last week’s episode basically told you why it’s so great.
And then this week, what I thought I would do is bring on someone who knows how she is when it comes to Facebook ads, and have a little chit chat about all of the good things. Now, before we dive into today’s episode, I have a freebie for you. If you head to steviesayssocial.com/74. I’ve got an Ad Copy Cheat Sheet. I know that that blank. It’s kind of blinking cursor is one of the hardest things when you go to write your Facebook ads.
This will definitely help with that you can go and download it for free. And you will also get notified when my blueprints on open things Facebook ads go live very, very soon. Make sure you hop over to steviesayssocial.com/74 and grab that. Now the girl that I’m talking to you today is Cat Skreiner from Seeking Digital and she is pretty much a self-confessed tech nerd. And the perfect person to talk to about Facebook ads. And without further ado,
STEVIE: Hey Cat.
CAT: Hey, Stevie.
STEVIE: How are you?
CAT: I’m really good. Thank you and thrilled to be chatting all things love hot eyes for Facebook ads.
STEVIE: We love it as much as each other right.
CAT: Oh we do.Yup.
STEVIE: I was actually going to go through. I told Cat before the podcast episode to send through a Quick-fire and she sent through a bio, I’ll actually read out the rest of it. She’s worked in the marketing space for over 20 directly with some massive brands like L’Oreal.
But when you sent it through Cat, I giggled a little bit because you’re like, I hate writing about myself. I never really know what to put in there.I think you nailed it. But maybe if you kind of want to elaborate on exactly what it is that you do for everyone listening.
CAT: Absolutely, absolutely. Thank you again. And I’ve worked in the digital space for about 13 of the 20 years showing my age that I’ve kind of had my marketing career. And I absolutely love the digital space. But most recently, I’ve really kind of finding on Facebook ads, as I guess the perfect kind of tactic to be focusing on and really helping people because I think that, you know, for me, Facebook ads takes all of those boxes.
It’s strategic, it’s creative. I even love the implementation side; my brain is a bit funny like that. And then I love the analysis and reporting and the optimization opportunities that are there. So might my love for Facebook ads probably started about four or five years ago and has just kind of ramped up and up and up. And now it’s probably about 70% of the client work that I do. And yeah, just love it. Like,
STEVIE: You started when did Facebook ads even come about? It was about it? Was it for? I don’t know, it was over four years ago. I just remember back in the day. When I very first started running ads for a Real Estate Agency that I got used to it, I used to get leads for, like dirt cheap, really, really, really cheap.
And I think it was like that was working out. Guys for context at the moment I get leads for between $3 and $9. Every email address I get, it costs between about $3 and $9. I used to get them for like 50 cents or untold and they were the complete glory days, weren’t they?
CAT: Absolutely I remember, Facebook ads were definitely around when I was at L’Oreal. And that was back in 2011 is when I started there. Facebook started to appear, you know, on the media schedules, and it would it was always allocated the most minuscule of budgets. At the time, it was treated very much Well, the placements that were available, were really just brand awareness placements, The right-hand column placement.
You were limited to text and your characters and all of that. Google ads as well. But yeah, things have really changed. And it’s powerful now like it’s kind of insanely scary how much targeting we can do. But from a marketing perspective, it’s exciting.
STEVIE: It’s so cool. Let’s dive into that. In terms of targeting, just for people that aren’t kind of aware of the sort of things that you can actually target with Facebook ads, do you want to give people a little bit of an overview? Because it’s either going to scare or impress?
CAT: Yes. I guess with the detailed targeting ability that you’ve got, you can target on interests. And you can obviously Facebook has kind of cracked down on a little bit on some of the options and they were removed some of the options after Cambridge Analytica and that whole scandal, but for example, you have a brand that’s focused on parents, you can absolutely be detailed down to parents of a particular age group,you can do parents overall you can do parents of newborns for you, Stevie, you’ll be you’ll be retargeted there.
STEVIE: I already am.
CAT: You can target different age brackets and parents, you can also look for, I guess, pages. If you’re targeting perhaps a small business owner or a female entrepreneur, you can look at other kinds of leading female entrepreneurs in the space like Marie Forleo, or Amy Porterfield, and pop that into your targeting as well. That you’re really honing in on the interests that someone has, and I know that you’re a big fan of Facebook Audience Insights. A lot of the time I’ll plan audiences initially, with that tool. And then a little bit further, once we’re kind of refining things, actually within ads manager, but I guess it’s about really understanding your customer, what they’re into seeing the other pages that they might be interacting with, and see if there’s an angle that you can target there. There’s that detailed targeting piece.
And then there’s the targeting that you can do through the pixel, which is, creating lookalike audiences. People who look like your website visitors or look like your existing email list or look like your purchases, and then allowing Facebook to go out and find more people that fit that profile, to serve your attitude.
STEVIE: And guys, if you don’t kind of understand the value in that it is incredibly valuable. And I think I don’t know if you’ve had the same experience Cat, but I feel like Facebook when they first brought out lookalike audiences, it was a little bit hit and miss.
You could do things like upload your email, database into Facebook, and they would plot people with similar attributes. And I never really had a lot of success in the beginning. But now, I honestly lookalike audiences is effective for me, are you finding that as well?
CAT: 100%.There is not a single campaign that I run. With the exception of of99% of the campaigns, that run would have some form of lookalike audience because it’s the best way to reach cooler traffic, I won’t say it’s cold, because it’s it is qualified, it’s cooler, qualified leads that you can then convert, depending on the campaign that you’re running.
STEVIE: To have lookalike audiences, you need to have the Facebook pixel setup. Let’s talk about what you need to have in place before you began starting to run Facebook ads.
CAT: Absolutely.The pixel even if you are not even considering running ads in the foreseeable couple of months or six months, I would get that pixel installed on your website, ASAP. If you’re running a platform like WordPress, or Square space, Magenta, Shopify, any of the big CMS platforms, it’s super easy to implement that pixel yourself, if you’ve got access, obviously, to the back end of your CMS.
And once that pixel installed, you start to collect data that you can start to make decisions around you can understand how people from Facebook are actually using your website and what the potential opportunity is, if you start to put money behind driving more people to the website through Facebook. It’s absolutely a no brainer, I think, and I’m quietly horrified with the number of websites that I come across, and I’m like, Where’s your pixel?
STEVIE: You don’t have a pixel? Do you have a pixel checker on your Chrome site? I always check.
CAT: One of the first things I do when I have a lead that comes through I’m like, Oh, where’s my low hanging fruit? Where can I really help them? And usually, it’s the pixel. Absolutely do pixel. I guess one thing to bear in mind is, I guess that whole setup of the ads manager account and your pixel.Each ad account can only have one pixel associated with it. Sometimes clients will come to me and there’s a bit of legacy or history with them using their own private Facebook account for their ads.
And we kind of go through the process of migrating them across to a business manager and then set up you know that infrastructure properly. So they’ve got a pixel that’s associated with the company, ad account, and it’s a little bit more separate than having to log in as a client, to kind of set up on this type of job.
STEVIE: Business manager, for those that don’t know, is basically a way of housing all of your assets within the one place accessible by more than one person. Is that right?
CAT: Absolutely. If you are outsourcing or you’ve got an agency or a freelancer, perhaps working on your business page for organic content, or even just you know, for advertising as well, you can designate which assets they have access to what level of access they have, to those assets, so that they log in as per the normal login details, there’s no sharing of personal logins.
And then if you for whatever reason ceases to work with that, that business or that person, you can very quickly and easily just remove their access to your assets. Suit’s a good security thing to have in place as well.
STEVIE: In terms of setup, the two things, make sure you’ve got an ad account, and potentially business manager if it suits you and make sure you’ve got the Facebook pixel
CAT: Facebook pixel. Absolutely.
STEVIE: Yep. Cool. Love it. Where do you see people get confused when they’re diving into Facebook ads? Because a lot of people would probably come to you after they’ve given it a shot themselves, and then throwing their hands up in the air. Is that right?
CAT: Yes, or I have had situations where they’ve had someone else manage it for them. And because they haven’t properly understood, I guess, the complexities of Facebook ads, they weren’t able to kind of feed into the strategy or the proposed strategy that was kind of put forward. I think one of the big places where people kind of get tripped up in the very beginning is actually choosing an objective that’s appropriate for what they actually want to achieve.
Or perhaps expecting too much from a single objective. And you’re running a campaign, and it’s designed around getting emails acquisition, you shouldn’t then expect that campaign to be optimized for engagement or lacks and that type of thing. They’re very different things if you want to grow your likes you need to do and engagement ad which is focused around page likes, not a lead generation, I can hook a conversion campaign that’s based around acquiring new leads. I’ve had
STEVIE: Actually save that a lot, I see a lot of black people diving in for the first time and kind of even just wasting not even going into the apps manager.
And then going off Facebook ads didn’t work for me. I, boosted for, and I like I get it, it’s confusing when you first go in to do it.No judgment. Oh, that is such a missed opportunity. Because, when you realize that with your Facebook ads, you can actually say to Facebook, okay, can you please go out and find people that are likely to purchase my x y Zed product you can actually do that. And I don’t think people realize,
CAT: Because it is very easy to boost. On Facebook, it’s boosting up and within Instagram is promote, it’s super, super easy to do that. And people can get great results from doing that. But the results can be absolutely next level with the proper objective. And a properly kind of mapped out campaign in terms of who you want that ad to be shown to and then what you want them to actually do and what your success is going to be or your return on investment. I think it’s so much easier to establish when you’re using ads manager.
STEVIE: How does that work? Because I know that you know, in the back end, you can actually say you’re an E-commerce product, you can actually physically see in the back end, what you’re actually paying per purchase basically, can’t you?
CAT: Absolutely. There’s one of my clients at the moment, she started her Facebook advertising journey back in March, and it was a very well established business that hadn’t really leveraged Social Media at all for the business. They had their own Shopify as their platform. And Shopify plays very nicely with Facebook in terms of
STEVIE: I love when e-commerce for an answer in Shopify, easy isn’t it?
CAT: Oh, yeah, it’s good. Easy, you literally just put the pixel ID number into the backend of Shopify, and Shopify does, you know everything else for you. She’s had some great success. And typically, what we’ll be measuring for her is, you know, the number of purchases that cost per purchase, and then what’s known as rollers, which is a return on ad spend.
It’s super granular. We do also look at things like clicks and click-through rate and things like that. But really, it’s about how much is she spending in terms of media? And how much is she actually making through sales, because the purchase value is pulled through into the Facebook Ads Manager reporting? An average cost per purchase, as well as the purchase value, and then you can kind of work that back to an average order size of I think for her that’s $360.
STEVIE: Cool. Now, one of the things that and I don’t know if you see this as well, but in terms of the results, that let’s keep it with an e-commerce brand, just because that’s what we’ve been talking about. But obviously, this is just as relevant to service-based and all of you people that are basically, looking to generate leads and things like that, with that raw ass so return on ad spend.
Basically what that is, guys, if you put $1 in, and your raw ass is one, then basically you’ve made your money back. And then if it’s $2 it basically works like that. What sort of results can people realistically expect from their Facebook ad spends, because I see people out there that are kind of talking about how they’re getting these ridiculous results? A lot of the time they will be remarketing campaigns, which is like retargeting campaigns to audiences. It’s not a true reflection of the total ad spend. What are your thoughts around what sort of results you can realistically achieve in this day and age on Facebook Ads?
CAT: I guess look yet raw ass for an abandoned cart campaign is ridiculously high. it’s been the one that we’re running at the moment is like 99, which is not normal, because that’s literally just reminding someone that they’ve got something in their cart, and they’re here I go back to my car. And I purchase said that is just outrageous.
STEVIE: Yeah. I mean, which is amazing.
STEVIE: When I Grace to shine, like always run abandon cart always remarket
STEVIE: Because that is where the gold is, right?
CAT: Yeah. 100%. But I think you can still have great success. I guess it’s a distinction maybe to pull apart remarketing, too. Remarketing is the terms of an abandoned cart campaign, and then there might be, a campaign that you’re running to kind of warm audience. And if that’s the case, then you definitely should expect a rise of over 10 and maybe even up to 50, or 60. Some of the campaigns that I’ve run and the one that I’ve got running for this econ client is sitting around 60.
She’s got the entire infrastructure really well set up. She spent the time getting the website done, beautiful copy, you know, compelling copy, all of those assets have come together to produce this great result. And I think sometimes, too much focus is popped on the Facebook ads. And it’s driving people to a product or an offer, that’s not proven. If people are not already buying that service, or purchasing that product, then doing Facebook ads isn’t necessarily going to fix that it may cost correct, of course.
And it may have just been a bit of a visibility problem in terms of people not actually, you’re brand new, and you just don’t have the traction through organic, social and that type of thing. But it’s not a silver bullet; it’s not going to fix things that are kind of not really hitting the mark with the audience that you’re trying to attract.
STEVIE: Honestly speaking my language to that because what I see is that people do treat it as the silver bullet. They will start at the end, even like with my social media course, for example, like Facebook ads is literally the last module of the entire course.
And the reason why and even before people do the course. Stepping back before you even like touch a social media account, you need to have an offer that converts and my business coach said this, to me, it was the very first thing he ever said to me is like, what’s your offer? Is it converting? And you need to test that; you can test it with Facebook ads? Sure and that’s one way you can go about it, and to see if people actually opting in, but you need to make damn sure that that is a solid offer before you start pouring money into it. And I think what makes a lot of small businesses nervous, is they’re not sure if they actually have that. And that’s why they’re nervous about spending the money.
CAT: Yes, 100%.
STEVIE: Are you saying if you’ve got a proven offer that converts, if you’ve got an organic social media strategy, if you’ve got the content marketing that goes around your offer, you can absolutely get really, really solid results on a cold audience campaign.
STEVIE: Cool. I like it love that
STEVIE: What sort of budgets are we looking at first, to dive into a Facebook ad? How much is the base service, Cat?
CAT: How long as a piece of string?
STEVIE: I know. I get it all the time though say how much do I spend on this.
CAT: I know, I know. And I always recommend people approach the very first time that they advertise as a good kind of test case, you certainly don’t need to kind of launch into spending $2,000 a month, without having kind of proven, that it’s actually going to work for you. At the very kind of bare minimum, if it was a little kind of test, and you really looking to dip their toe in the water, I would probably suggest maybe about $200 run for about five days, or five to seven. Or you can look at spending between the kind of 20 to $40 a day for a week’s period.
A week gives you enough days to play with. You’ve got enough time for the campaign to get some traction, there’s enough budget sitting behind it for it to get traction, sometimes I think people start, you know, as low as they can go. So $10 or less, and it’s just not enough for Facebook to actually kind of learning, and you need to allow it some time to learn, who to go, who to set the ads to who’s going to respond and all of that kind of thing.
If you spend too little, you just don’t give your campaign and you’re as the opportunity to be seen. If you start with a slightly healthier budget, learn what works. And then the next time you run that campaign, you can run at a lower level. Maybe the title is a day because you’re going to be running kind of always-on and $10 a day is once you know what that return on, on the $10 is you’re like, absolutely happy to spend that because I’m getting x y Zed. And these are the expected results. And I’m happy to kind of then leave that going for a little bit longer.
STEVIE: Yeah, for those that don’t know, you need 50 conversions, isn’t it? Yes, it’s properly optimized. Guys, if you are spending, say it’s a lead generation campaign and you’re paying, $3 a lead, you need to get 50 of those conversions. You need to do the math on what it’s actually going to cost me to get that.
STEVIE: It’s actually quite, it’s heartbreaking. When people are like, I’m just not getting results from my ads, and it’s 10 or 20 or $30? Or, it’s just not enough I’m really glad that things set up.
CAT: Yeah. And I think for kind of ongoing activity, again, it really does depend on what returnee getting how much can you reinvest and kind of keep the ads kind of fuel. But I tend to recommend people spend a minimum of about $500 if they’ve got, you know, a campaign in a funnel, that’s kind of working kind of minimum of $500, if it’s producing the results, and if it’s an activity that they need.
STEVIE: And if you like if it’s producing the results, you happy to spend it because you getting the money back right?
STEVIE: So what would you say are the biggest kind of in terms of what actually makes a successful ad campaign? What do you think are the biggest players at the moment? Because one thing I’m seeing personally is social proof. People liking, commenting, engaging on ads, just like with social media, like, you know, organic social these days, I think it really starts to supercharge and ad have you seen that?
CAT: Absolutely, absolutely. And I think sometimes people, even if they’ve come from the boosting and promoting camp, when they faced with ads manager, I have to create an ad from scratch, or I have to copy the ads, the ad copy and the image from an existing post that’s got all this traction on it, you don’t you can use an existing post, in ads manager pull that in said, You’ve got that social proof, and even run that, as, engagement or awareness to really start to kind of bolster and get that social proof side of things happening as well. Absolutely
STEVIE: Working so well. And it’s just like, it brings your costs down overall,I guess the strategy could be then stopped running, initially push it out, get the social proof, organically or whatever, and then actually push that ad with all of the social proof on it to people that have never heard about you before. And it’s just human nature. Because they see it, they’re like, oh, cool. People have engaged with it. I’m going to click over and it sounds like pack mentality. But I do that,
CAT: Yes. Yep. And if it’s something that piques your interest in the news feed, and then you look at the comments, and then you kind of clicking through your you’re engaged like that is, it’s really a bit of a no brainer, it might be a price thing or whatever. But you’re kind of there.
STEVIE: Yeah. This is kind of putting you on the spot because I’m not sure if anything will come to mind for you. But one thing mentioning like what you mentioned before, around, you can target newborns and things like that one thing I’ve noticed with my pregnancy is these companies. A lot of the pregnancy-related companies are doing an amazing job of targeting me. Even like literally, almost nine months ago, I just found out I was pregnant, I clearly said something triggered it.
But I started getting these like pregnancy ads. And really, really, what’s the word for it? Engaging bang on ads for me. I started to make a little list. So there’s quite a few different brands, multi organics is one that I think is doing a really good job in that space at the moment with that storytelling style. And there was another one called expects for meditation, they’re obviously spending a look. I’m constantly on the Ads. Have you got any examples of businesses that you think are just really nailing it in terms of what they’re doing with their Facebook? Ad strategy?
CAT: Oh, you are putting me on the spot.
STEVIE: I’ve actually been thinking about it because I’ve been really month live the pregnancy ones. And I’m actually doing a great job. And the reason there’s always a different reason. This month the organics they don’t make the ads look like literally, they will tell a whole story about how they elect into non-toxic skincare. The effect that it’s had on that. Wow, that is such a nice natural add. And then you click over. I actually ended up buying stretch mark oil, literally from them. Wow, that is just such a great example of a nice, natural Ad in the newsfeed.
CAT: Absolutely I think brands that do leverage, I guess the power of story storytelling on social, which we all you know, agree and know that is hugely powerful. That’s what sets them apart. And that’s what makes you remember them. And it’s more of a yes; you eventually kind of go, oh, it’s sponsored. But if it’s completely relevant to you, and it’s contextually relevant, then you don’t mind as much, I think I feel like you.
And I think the more you interact with a lot of these pages, and if you’re falling into that expecting category, because that is a target that is targeting option, the more you kind of see like content from other brands as well, who was smart to kind of target in that way. But I definitely agree when that storytelling element is coupled with the targeting and a paid campaign, then it’s naturally going to create a much more bonded customer, because they’ve been on a little bit of a journey, it’s not like you’ve just kind of landed cold on to their website and started looking at products that might work for you or might not, or you didn’t really understand the ethos of their brand, and the organic nature and all of those things, that kind of makeup that that particular brand, you’ve kind of gone on that journey.
And you’re much more likely to purchase. And I think that’s where I think there’s so much of an opportunity. Facebook Ads have been thrust into the spotlight a bit because everyone’s like, Oh, well, organic rate shoes died, or it’s dead. There are so many schools of thought, but I think there’s still a huge opportunity to support your organic content, to get it seen by more people. And if you have to pay for that, just the nature of platforms changing and, you know, changing the landscape when it comes to social media. Don’t be too resistant to that, if you’ve got a really great story to tell. That when you take people on that journey, they eventually become very, very loyal customers.
STEVIE : Yeah, I think that’s a really good point you made around the fact that organic, social, and paid they actually work hand in hand, because often, organic, social media is dead, you know, you need to pay to play, I think there is a whole ton of value in paying to play but actually think that organic social supports that it’s not like an either-or, if you have an amazing it sounds like your client, your econ client has got a killer, organic strategy. And that’s actually supporting her paid strategy because it’s bringing her costs down, you know?
CAT: Absolutely, absolutely. Because the more people you have engaging with your organic content, if you’re then serving if you’re using and leveraging those people, as a custom audience of people who are engaged on Instagram or engaged on Facebook, then the more people you drive into your organic side of things, and the more they engage, the more success you’ll have with the paid side of things as well.
STEVIE: Yep, love it. Alright, so one final question. Do you think Facebook ads are still worthwhile in 2019, given that Ad costs are rising, given that it’s getting more expensive? Given that everyone is jumping on board? I’m guessing your answer is yes.
CAT: Absolutely. 100%? Yes. I think when it comes to, rising costs, and the cost of advertising, it’s also relative.If you have ever worked in traditional marketing, you have a sense of how expensive certain channels can be. And we’ve really enjoyed, I don’t want to say, the golden era of social media, because hopefully, you know, things kind of move and change in the right direction anyway. But I think once you’ve got context around, paying $3 for a lead, versus not even understanding what a TVC campaign might bring you, or some other maybe print media and things like that, I think, because you because digital, and particularly Facebook ads is so measurable, it’s wonderful, because we do get that true ROI.
But it also raises questions. Because people understand exactly how much it costs them. They’re like, Oh, well, I don’t know if I want to spend that much. But when you compare it to other channels, it’s still in my mind comes; it’s so much more cost-effectively. And I think even though I’m not a Google Ad specialist by any stretch, but from the experience that I’ve had in past roles. Facebook was always much more cost-efficient than then Google ads and just pure targeting abilities.it offers makes it the number one choice for me, particularly if you’re on a budget, and you want to test and trial things because no one says, as soon as you open an account, you don’t spend anything until you run a campaign.
If you freak out midway and go, Ah, and you just turn it off, you stop spending money. It’s powerful in that way. If you change your mind, it’s fine. Facebook’s, it’s not a subscription model. They’re not going to keep charging your credit card but in a yearly exactly. I think there’s so much opportunity for businesses all sides to really test it as long as they’re clear about what their expectations are and what they want, the ads to do for them. And also willing to take that view of being an investment, particularly the first time and investment in learning what works and what doesn’t work, and then always taking those learning forward for future campaigns.
STEVIE: Yeah, I love it. Thank you, Cat. I could actually just sit here and talk to you about Facebook ads for a number of hours. I genuinely love it. And it’s nice to have someone I would like chit chat about.
CAT: Anytime, anytime.
STEVIE: Good. If people want to find out more about you and Seeking Digital, how do them where do you want me to direct.
CAT: On Instagram, it’s just the handle Seeking Digital, and my website is seekingdigital.com.au
STEVIE: Thank you so much.
CAT: You’re welcome.
STEVIE: And guys, if you want to get your hands on the Ad Copy Cheat Sheet that I was talking about at the start of the episode, head over to steviesayssocial.com/74. Get your hands on that. All of the links to all of Cat’s website and social profiles will be on there as well. I will chat with you guys next week.
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